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Up Topic Discussion / Vitamins and Health / Red Clover and Vitex
- - By RobbieBobbie Date 2004-12-07 18:58
I am currently taking Red Clover - 1000mg daily and Vitex - 1250mg daily.  The Red Clover works wonderfully as a natural anti-imflammatory for my knee.  I have patellar tendonitis.    I am taking the Vitex to control some of the anger and jumpiness I have always had to deal with and to my amazement I am soooo much calmer and relaxed then ever before.  My wife loves these changes.  However, in just a month and a half, I am beginning to develop breasts and they ache from time to time.  Will the breast development continue.  My wife has noticed the breast changes too and is ok with it, since she knows some males get breast development. 

Is it likely, I will continue to feminize if I continue the herbs and soy milk at this level?

Parent - - By gabriellem Date 2004-12-08 02:46
I can not help you the Vitex, but perhaps you could help me with a question.  I have been dealing with patela-fibular pain for quite some time and I am curious if red clover could help with this.  I play hard, and the often the result is sore, inflamed knees. 

Good Luck with your Vitex question. 
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2004-12-08 13:57
I have done quite a bit of research on Red Clover and other natural anti-inflammatories because I can't tolerate many of the prescription anti-inflammatory drugs plus the natural ones are better for you, less side-effects, actually heals injuries instead of just masking the pain. 
Fish oil is also a natural anti-inflammatory and has also helped my condition some.

If you have a chronic tendonitis problem, the Red Clover would be helpful.  If it is a mechanical problem, arthitis or a cartilage problem in the knee, it probably will not help any.

Note:  Red Clover is not to be taken if you have other underlying health issues such as blood clotting, heart disease, or if you are already taking aspirin or coumadin, for a condition, etc. 
Even though it is relatively a safe herb, it is medicine and you must be careful. 
Parent - - By sakura Date 2004-12-08 22:15
would taking red clover be a problem in someone who is taking an 81mg asprin each day for heart health doctor recommended it since i'm over 30 and heavy set
Parent - - By Dakota Lynn Date 2004-12-08 22:48
Sweetie It should be Ok. But keep an eye on your blood preasure.

Parent - By RobbieBobbie Date 2004-12-09 12:47
You are so right about checking the blood pressure when adding red clover.  It can possibly elevate it.
Parent - By RobbieBobbie Date 2004-12-09 20:36
Dear Sakura,

I mentioned the problem with taking red clover if you already have a pre-existing condition with blood clots or have heart disease or estrogen dependent cancer.  I got this information from a website called "".   

They recommend not taking the herb if you have a problem with blood clots and/or heart disease.  I just want you to be as informed as possible. 

You might be ok, if you are just taking the aspirin as a preventative measure and you don't actually have any heart problems.

Always best to play it safe!
Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-02 20:23

can you tell me if you have had continued success with these two products? How long did it take to notice stuff happening? Did any other parts change, ie hips and bottom? Where can you suggets buying these from and which brands?

Look forward to your reply
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-02 21:09
Well, I did get some change in the first month or two but lately I have leveled off.  So to some it up, for myself I have seen a slight amount of breast development, it is noticeable to me in the mirror but probably not to anyone else. 

I did add a little bit of fat to my hips and lost a little bit from the typical male midsection.  So I reproportioned slightly, and I am very happy with that change at this point.  I probably would like a little bit more than I have currently, but considering the saftety of red clover and vitex it is certainly been worth it to me.....

I also take a good mutivitamin from GNC,  womens ultra-mega without iron.  I have also cut out almost all junk food, soda, donuts, cake, ice cream, stuff with sugar and caffenie because this WILL work against your goal..  Plus it is not good for your body anyway.....

I bought both herbals at GNC.  Note:  There are several different brands of vitex and their potencies do vary, so be aware that if you change brands of vitex or any herbal from the store the amount of active ingredient that promotes the physical changes will vary... 

Everybody's body will react differently to herbals, so I couldn't be sure it would produce the same effect for yourself...

If you use red clover, I would check your blood pressure after being on it for a while just to be on the safe side....
Also, the literature states that if you are currently taking medicine to reduce the risk of blood clots or have active heart disease, do not take red clover....

I do believe that the products that Dianna sells on this site will give you better results overall, since the product is better designed and fine tuned to produce the effects you are looking for. 

Hope this helps,
Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-02 21:28

thank you so much, so can you offer me the best doesage to start with, how many of each per day? Do I try them everyday or do I have a rest for a couple of days?

So GNC, thanks

I like being a girl
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-02 21:34
I would start with a smaller amount for little while, say 500mg of red clover and vitex which is 1 capsule of each and see how that goes.  The bottles say you can take 1 or 2 capsules a day, so you certainly can ramp up to 2 capsules without any problems....

Taking a good brand of multivitamin is important too, so be sure to consider that... 

BTW,  I am taking them every day and I have been doing this for the past 3 months...

Just be sure to have your blood pressure checked.

BTW.  I may switch over to the herbals (evanesce, etc) sold on this site in the near future so I can get even better results, but you certainly can start like I did with the red clover and vitex....
I am a strong believer in the herbal approach, since I think they are generally safer and easier on the human body if taken properly....
Parent - By Emma Date 2005-02-02 21:40
Thank you so much, I will check the BP too.

My email is

If you would like to drop me a line.

Parent - By Dakota Lynn Date 2005-02-02 21:53
Robbie sweetie may I ask a question about the cost of these products compaired to the Evanesce and Feminol?

Parent - By Dianna Date 2005-02-03 00:27

> 500mg of red clover and vitex which is 1 capsule of each and see how that goes.

Evanesce has two forms of concentrated extracts of Vitex -- so that you can get the active ingrediants of vitex,
without having to take large amounts of other plant material
Feminol also has two forms of concentrated extracts of Vitex, but not as much overall as in Evanesce. also has Red Clover for sale.

Bear in mind (and this is a repeat for long-time readers of this forum) that there are no standards
for measuring or comparing herbal things from brand to brand
A product that one company calls a 500mg herbal product,
may actually have less active ingrediants -- the "good stuff" -- than another company's 25 mg product.
Parent - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-02 21:24
I will also mention that my mental well-being has improved.  I used to get very edgy at times, and my wife can attest to this, I am much more calm, relaxed and even tempered now then I ever was...
Parent - - By Kriss Date 2005-02-03 01:04

Changes under estrogen (and lack of T) will vary from person to person.  Just like GG's there are periods where nothing seems to happen (although it is) and periods when you'll see lots of changes.  Enjoy the experience!

Parent - By Emma Date 2005-02-07 17:59

i am looking forward to changes happening to my body, funny thing is I want to get a better bottom and some hips. I am so excited about change, I know I have to be patient too. I so wanna be a girl.
Parent - - By VeryGnawty Date 2005-02-02 22:58
I know that Vitex is a decent anti-androgen, but you have to get a good brand.  I'd still recommend Evanesce, seeing as how it isn't much more expensive anyway, and it will produce better overall effects.
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-03 15:20
I have not switched over from the vitex and red clover, partly because I have a lot of vitex and red clover that I already pre-purchased that I need to use up, but I totally agree that the evanesce product is definitely superior to store bought herbs for controlling testosterone, etc.....

I also have issues with swallowing pills that I need to work on overcoming and deals with before I invest in the evanesce... 
I will not be able to chew up the evanesce pills or dissolve them in water as easily as I do with the whole herbs I got from the store, but that is just my issue, most people dont have problems swallowing pills like me....

I really hope to switch over to evanesce sometime this spring....
Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-07 17:57

i have started on the red clover and vitex today. I am going to give it a try. I hope that I too will see some changes in my hips and bottom. If I gain a little on my breasts that would be a bonus. I will follow your advice about quatities to take at first. not forgetting my BP. How often should I check my BP and what are the good numbers? So I will take one of each everyday. Do you think I might see some changes in a month?
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-07 20:38
I would check my blood pressure right away first to get a good background reading.    120/80 is an ideal reading to shoot for.  If your numbers are much higher than this, I would monitor by BP closely for a while and check with your physician...

Remember as Dianna has said on this site, store bought herbs will vary in potency.  It is certainly ok to start with the over-the counter red clover and vitex, I have had some success with it. (my hips have filled out a little with the red clover and vitex)

BUT, your best results will come from using the standardized herbal extracts in the Evanesce product that is sold on this site, they are superior to store bought individual herbs...
I am now switching over to Evanesce sometime this week..  The price is pretty reasonable, considering it is more potent (has more active ingredient) than the store bought herbs...
Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-07 20:42
Thanks, I will let you know how I get on and any changes
Parent - By RhondaJ Date 2005-02-08 00:21
Being a nurse im going to reply to the blood pressure issue. It was mentioned above 120/80 is ideal. Actually depending on you history it may be to high. Drs are treating people with certain histories to get it down under 110/70. 

Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-09 19:47

Well I started on the red clover and vitex like we discussed. Funny thing the past two days my testicles seem funny and dont stop tingling, is that ok? What causes this and what happening down there? Look forward to your reply.
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-09 20:05
I cannot say that I got that sensation from the vitex, but other peple on this board have mentioned a warm sensation there. 

I will say that mine have shrank a litte bit, but I have never had a tingling sensation there.....

How much vitex and red clover are you taking?  1 capsule is about 500mg.....
What brand of vitex and red clover are you using?  The brand can make a huge difference sometimes.....

If it seems like something is really going wrong with your body , I would back off the herbs for a while and ask others in this community about it. 
Maybe Dianna can give you some advice on this too..

Just to let you know,,,
I am now switching to the Evanesce herbal product sold on this site, becuase it is tried and true and proven to be safe and effective. 

Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-09 20:10

I got the ones from GNC.

1 Red Clover
1 Vitex

Parent - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-09 20:16
OK, that is what I have been using for the past 3 months and I have had no bad side effects other then a little bit of dizziness from time to time.....
Parent - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-09 20:25
There are 2 brands of vitex sold at the GNC where I live.    Herbal Plus , and Natures Fingerprint....
I prefer the Herbal Plus because it appears to have more of the active indregients in it then the Natures Fingerprint

The brand makes an enormous difference......
Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-09 20:12

What can I expect to happen in the coming weeks? I know everyone is different to change, but might I see breast growth. I especially would like to see changes in my hips and bottom.
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-09 20:19
I did see some fat distribution on my hips within 1 month of taking the herbs.  I have just a tiny bit of breast development, but it is there and it is real...  I gradually increased my doseage to 2 capsule of each daily.  The bottle says you can take up to 2 capsules daily.
Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-09 20:26

Well I am going to stay with one of each for a while. I guess I was worried that I would develop breasts very quickly and they become really noticable sooner than I want. I hope the fat goes to my hips too. Would you stay with a lower dose for a while? If I stay with the lower dose, with change happen but just a lot slower?
Parent - - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-09 20:29
Probably., however everyones body is different so there is no absolute guarantee of this..,..    But remember to watch what you eat, good nutrituous foods, avoid sugar and junk foods, caffeine, smoking, etc.    This is very very important.  THe herbs probably wont work at all if you eat or drink junk foods and/or smoke....
Parent - - By Emma Date 2005-02-09 20:36
Thank you.

Please feel free to email me,

I value your help and advice. Hey, did your breasts ever ache or feel itchy whilst taking stuff?
Parent - By RobbieBobbie Date 2005-02-09 21:14
Yes, they would ache sometimes and itch too.    My body is pretty sensitive to changes, because I drank soy milk for a year before I started these herbs and I had some breast swelling and tenderness then.  It was the soymilk that did some of the changes to my breast tissue.  However, the soymilk had no effect on my hips, etc....
Up Topic Discussion / Vitamins and Health / Red Clover and Vitex

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