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Up Topic Discussion / Transition Issues / TS Women & Orgasm
- - By Aleta Cristy Date 2005-04-05 04:52
Hello Ladies, all of us have spent some time examining the women’s magazines while waiting in line at the grocery store. One of the common cover topics is always “female orgasm”.  I’m sure I’m not the only one who wonders about what I will be capable of achieving in this department, so I just thought I would ask.

Being born male with fully functional male genitalia and a number of years of experience with such, I often wonder what type of sexual pleasure I will experience once I have reached this stage of my transition. Not that sex or sexual pleasure is at the top of many of our minds, it is something that I occasionally think about as I experience the changes of less T and more E in my system.

What once used to affect my life to a major degree, now is just an occasional thought....

It seems there is a limited amount of first hand information as to what TS women personally experience in the “O” department.

Naturally, we are all unique and can not expect the same results as others but I thought it would be a good topic for us to openly discuss here.

So if any of the gals who have reached this place in their transition and would like to comment and or share, the floor is yours.

A special request goes out to those who have been living full time with years of post-op female life as well as those who have recently gone through SRS/GRS.

Let women support women in our journeys....

Thank you for your thoughts.

Hugs and laughs to all of us, Aleta C.
Parent - - By Dianna Date 2005-04-05 15:24

> It seems there is a limited amount of first hand information as to what TS women personally experience in the “O” department.


Like with born-women, post-op orgasm is a learned/re-learned experience.

For many born-women who struggle with not having orgasms,
one primary technique that therapists recommend is masturbation;
This helps the woman to know what her body responds to, and what the sensations should feel like.
And that those sensations are "normal", not perverted, as many women have been taught growing up.

Overall shared experience in the M2F post-op community over the past thirty years,
has been that the girls who were the most orgasmic before surgery,
were ultimately the most orgasmic after surgery.

The historical problem with this,
was that many therapists believed (and a few still do believe) that anyone born male,
who masturbated,
was no longer a candidate for SRS;
that the individual "obviously" did enjoy having their penis, afterall, if they masturbated.
Lots of psycho-babble terminology was applied to those particular TG/TS individuals, to further increase their shame.

So our girls -- over the past 40-50 years -- learned to lie to their therapists and psychologists about whether or not they masturbated,
in order to get their surgery-approval letters.
Education of the medical helping professionals has mostly (but not totally) eliminated this historical problem.

Orgasm after SRS is also a function of the SRS surgeon's skill, and especially of the individual's body to heal.
Much of the surgery involves healing of areas with significant nerves and nerve endings...

Modern SRS techniques have significantly reduced the length of time for return of sensations in the genital area.
Historically, time for genital sensations to return, averaged 6-12 months.

Today, some girls have sensations almost immediately after SRS.
Others still have a recovery time period, until sensations return.
And obviously, it takes the ability of sensations in the genital area in order to have genital/based orgasms.
This is not the same as "whole body" orgasms,
which some posts on  this board describe as reality, just from the shift in hormone levels and hormone effects
Parent - By Dianna Date 2005-04-05 15:42

> Lots of psycho-babble terminology was applied to those particular TG/TS individuals, to further increase their shame.


One of THE most destructive bits of psycho-babble, in my considered opinion,
was the introduction of the terminology of "autogynophilia", in the late 1990s.

"Autogynophilia" was defined as: a person fantasizing about being a woman,
in order to facilitate/help -- before or during -- masturbation;
i.e., using internal fantasies of actually being a woman, as a fetish to stimulate masturbation.
The definition was made broad enough to cover transsexuals as well as cross-dressers.

(This is NOT the same thing as dressing as a woman -- using clothing as a fetish -- in order to stimulate masturbation)

While at first blush this can seem an appropriate definition for many if not most M2F TG/TSs...
..and while many in our community initially embrace this concept as valid within their own lives....
..and given that the two primary authors of this concept do seem to tar all members of the TG/TS community with this brush
while emphasizing that this should NOT be a barrier to SRS approval....
....this whole concept is abhorrant, in my opinion.

Further examination of this concept clearly shows that it flies in the face of reality that human beings are sexual creatures by nature.
We each and all have some fundamental sexual nature,
which is inherent within each us, which is crucial to the long term survival of the species.

It is not reasonable to assume that the human default condition is to be non-sexual/assexual
It is absolutely NOT reasonable to assume that humans should be sexually activity-free except for instances of procreation within a marriage.
(Yes -- there are individuals who are assexual/non-sexual, but those people are rare)

And sex without a partner does, by its very nature, involved fantasy.
For some people, even sex WITH a willing partner or spouse will involve fantasy....
This is normal and healthy.

So the concept of "autogynophilia" is in my opinion a grossly misapplied concept,
and just one more source of shame for TG/TS individuals,
......if not also a source of stonewalling regarding SRS approval letters.
Parent - - By Aleta Cristy Date 2005-04-05 16:38

> the girls who were the most orgasmic before surgery, were ultimately the most orgasmic after surgery.


Sex / masturbation used to be at the forefront of my mind for many years while T was dominant. Now it is totally different. I do not engage in build up and release in the male fashion but only once or twice a month at best. Now I rarely use the penis for these pleasures and experience... most of my sexual enjoyment through the soft touch of other parts of my body, primarily the breasts & nipples. If I get to that zone, it's more in the outer areas then the main "trunk".

Since I'm am only participating in std male masturbation of the previous form on occasion and experiencing it in a totally different fashion now, is it still considered participating in "orgasmic before surgery" or does one need to continue the traditional male build up and release to be considered "active" before surgery?

Having orgasms after surgery is not extremely important but since transition is a slow process (for me) I would like to be capable of satisfying sex after transition. And maybe not only with myself.... :)

I also have had several wet dreams this last year. (I can’t believe I’m sharing this) The last time I could remember having those was as a teenager. Now I’m in my late forties and having them from time to time again.

Trying to find my way "back home" has definitely been an interesting ride to say the least.

Aleta
Parent - - By Dianna Date 2005-04-05 23:51

> Since I'm am only participating in std male masturbation [...] is it still considered participating in "orgasmic before surgery" or does one need to continue the
> traditional male build up and release to be considered "active" before surgery?


Your therapist is the only one who can answer that question...
The problem is that to ask this question is to "tip your hand" if your therapist thinks it is a problem.
Parent - - By Aleta Cristy Date 2005-04-06 00:22

>The problem is that to ask this question is to "tip your hand" if your therapist thinks it is a problem.


I'm sorry, I don't understand what this means. Can you explain "tip your hand" ?

I was only asking what form of masterbation would be considered "active" before surgery. Std male release or a more female style that does not include male release? I'm attempting to understand if what I'm doing is considered "active" or not.
Thanks, Aleta
Parent - By Dianna Date 2005-04-06 03:02

> I'm sorry, I don't understand what this means. Can you explain "tip your hand" ?


To "tip your hand" is a card/gambling slang term, where a person accidently leans or turns in such a way that others can see that person's card, their "hand";
the term means to inadvertently show what you have.

In this case, by asking your therapist what the guidelines are regrading masturbation,
you will be telling your therapist that you do masturbate...

> I was only asking what form of masterbation would be considered "active" before surgery. [...] I'm attempting to understand
> if what I'm doing is considered "active" or not.


For those therapists who still think this is important, ANY form of masturbation is a problem.
And a male therapist will be even worse about this...
Parent - - By LadyWindstone Date 2005-04-05 16:06
Hi Aleta!
Ive been away for a bit and thought I drop in.

I am 4 months post-op now and I am still healing. I am up to 5 1/2 inches for vaginal depth, with my dialations. I am now learning the normal routines that all born-women share, like vaginal cleaning and deorderising.

My clitoris is sensitive to the touch yet, but I definetly can feel my fingers run across it.
I am feeling sexually aroused when using my vagina, I am gaining mental triggers ie; training my mind/relearning. However, when aroused, my urethra end becomes bulbous/hard. This is because not all the spongy erectile tissue was cut out, and probably healed itself back into place. Either way its a bit embarassing if I "spread 'em" for it rivals my clitoris for size. So I may eventually go back to thailand, for my surgeon said he would fix for me (for free!). If I do that, I also may end up getting more nasal shaving done.

But for now, I am really happy and content with having a vulva/vagina. It feels so awesome being able to live my life as a full woman!

Rheya
Parent - - By Aleta Cristy Date 2005-04-05 16:46
Hi Rheya! Nice to hear from you. I believe I have read and seen pictures of the condition you speak of. It must be very hard to know how much to remove while doing surgery.
It sounds like your moving right along as usual. :)

Hugs, Aleta
Parent - By LadyWindstone Date 2005-04-05 18:08
By any chance you have a web link for me to see? This is new to me, so I am interested in seeing others like mine.

Although I will have to say having that embarassing mini "hard-on" has a plus: it helps to tighten up on the "whatever sexual device" happens to be in me! This is by closing up the vaginal opening more, instead of a gaping hole.
Rheya

and yes Im moving along physically; my breasts are up to almost a full B cup now.
Parent - - By LadyWindstone Date 2005-04-06 02:04
I have just tried masturbation to relieve a long build up of tension. I thought I was healed and strong in the vagina, but guess not. I produced
blood, and boy it freaked me out. I was panicked after trying to feel inside and feeling folds or creases and smooth bumps inside and being like omigod! whats this...!? I had thoughts of fistula which totally panicked me. But its been 4 months and I have had no incidence of any signs of such. But when I bled from masturbation, I thought I tore my vagina, probably did briefly.
But all seems normal now. I am going to go in to have another vaginal xam to make sure things are ok.

the moral of this story kids is when you are post op, make damn sure you treat your parts delicately for a long time!! Dont take for granted that things are ok esp. after a short while just after post op.

Rheya
Parent - - By LadyWindstone Date 2005-04-06 02:32
This episode has brought to me a wave of thoughts and emotions.
I was brought to tears at finally realising how fortunate I am with having a fast and smooth transition, just a couple of minor complications with srs, good depthness of vagina, passing as a woman 80-95% of the time (even without make-up), still keeping my job, supportive family.
I realised my fortune after reading about others who are not so fortunate in their journeys, and esp. with their SRS. Wow! Im amased at the high risks envolved. I had no idea before I went under the knife.

and here I am focusing on making sure I "pass". grimace at the soreness when I start in dialating each time. Not feeling grateful for having a vagina in the first place and a fairly deep one, compared to many others I have read about.
I feel low...but xtremely grateful now.
Rheya
Parent - - By Rowan Date 2005-04-06 03:40
Rheya, you have my utmost respect. Knowing that you have the courage to complete your transformation is inspirational to me. I can't even begin to imagine what it's taken to get where you are today. Take comfort in the fact that girls like you continue to blaze the trail for those of us who follow. Thank you for staying strong, for yourself and for the rest of us.

R~
Parent - - By LadyWindstone Date 2005-04-06 11:05
I truly thank you.
The problem for me at being a 'trail-blazer' is that I get ahead of myself, Im usually 2 or 3 steps ahead of my present moment. Thereby, I dont take things into consideration, i just go. I also view this physical plane of xistance as transitory and so something as massive as SRS is not a huge deal for me.
So now when I actually 'stop' and notice what I have went thru and w/o any major complications, its like; whoa! And esp. reading and hearing of others going thru hardships/complications in their own journeys.

So I have 'stopped' and realised just how things can go bad in an instant. And so I am grateful for my entire situation.

Also I really need to NOT insert sharp objects ie; finger nails into places they dont belong as of yet...

Amasing that something minor like that can bring an "about face"...

Rheya
Parent - By Dakota Lynn Date 2005-04-06 14:07
Sweetie what you just did was what they were talking about when they said "Stop and smell the roses". it gives you time to understand that you did not go through this alone. You had someone that was with you all the way looking out for you. Some will say that it was you Angel some will say it's your watcher. I just like to call mine overworked...Ha Ha Ha!

Plus not one of us can blame you for wanting to try out the new works to see how or if, they are working yet.

Daks
Up Topic Discussion / Transition Issues / TS Women & Orgasm

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